Curse

Avarre · Apr 19, 2008, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

That is the difference between WANTING to change a bar and being FORCED to change a bar.

You're not forced to change your bar. You're fully welcome to continue running a bar that's less effective, and you'll still be able to succeed when using it in PvE. From there, you might want to change your bar to something more effective, and that's up to you.

Magikarp · Apr 19, 2008, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

You're not forced to change your bar. You're fully welcome to continue running a bar that's less effective, and you'll still be able to succeed when using it in PvE. From there, you might want to change your bar to something more effective, and that's up to you.

the real point is, is that the open opportunities of creativity and change should be viable in more dimensions than we have now....

way more.

we have some many crud skills left in the dirt, never used, never seen, laughed at, pushed away by elitism ect... these could be some peoples only skills if they only have a few games, or bought skills they thought sounded good at the time.

i just generally think anet needs to really rethink their strategy for "balancing" skills. its literally just a series of pvp based nerfs every single update now, and its driving the skill pool for both pvp and pve into about 100 good skills to choose from...

i personally would love to see new options open up, new builds swarm GvG/HA, and even some crazy elite zone clearing teams thanks to some skill recons ect. its that unpredictability, that excitement of "whats next" in pvp that made me pay the higher tiers of it... now its just... "oh.. sway..." "oh... escapers.."

Kashrlyyk · Apr 19, 2008, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

You're not forced to change your bar. You're fully welcome to continue running a bar that's less effective, and you'll still be able to succeed when using it in PvE. From there, you might want to change your bar to something more effective, and that's up to you.

Change BHA to 5 seconds daze, which might be enough for PvP, and tell me how it is up to me to change my bar against ele, rit or some monk bosses!

The bar I use is fun, it kills fast enough and I progress fast enough through areas, without steamrolling over every enemy. Now the skills are changed because of PvP, and killings take too long now. Fighting becomes a chore now. So just to get back to that perfect fun happy place, I am forced to change my build.

Tyla · Apr 19, 2008, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

Change BHA to 5 seconds daze, which might be enough for PvP, and tell me how it is up to me to change my bar against ele, rit or some monk bosses!

Who uses BHA in PvP?
There are still plenty of viable choices aswell as it too.

Quote:

The bar I use is fun, it kills fast enough and I progress fast enough through areas, without steamrolling over every enemy. Now the skills are changed because of PvP, and killings take too long now. Fighting becomes a chore now. So just to get back to that perfect fun happy place, I am forced to change my build.

As Avarre said earlier, you aren't forced to change your bar because you have the choice to run the nerfed version or change, because the choice is up to you.

Magikarp · Apr 19, 2008, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Who uses BHA in PvP?
There are still plenty of viable choices aswell as it too.

As Avarre said earlier, you aren't forced to change your bar because you have the choice to run the nerfed version or change, because the choice is up to you.

one, the bha quote was an example....
also.. please name another "viable" daze skill for pve lmao

two... playing something like WY! is ludicrous, but it used to be a great skill. thanks to pvp, its in the same bin with Primal Rage.

you wouldn't use garbage from a dumpster to make a cake...

Tyla · Apr 19, 2008, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

one, the bha quote was an example....
also.. please name another "viable" daze skill for pve lmao

Not a very good example if it doesn't get used in PvP.
And I ment viable elite choices apart from Daze.
Daze, is just icing on the cake in PvE.

Quote:

two... playing something like WY! is ludicrous, but it used to be a great skill. thanks to pvp, its in the same bin with Primal Rage.

In PvE, ["save yourselves!"] > ["watch yourself!"].

credit · Apr 19, 2008, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Honestly, this is a retarded move by Anet. PvE doesn't matter in skill balances, it's already too easy.

W2Fail, I honestly thought that this game couldn't get any worse.

Wrong.

Ctb · Apr 19, 2008, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

please enlighten me how someone's oppinion can be "wildly incorrect".

Just because you're allowed to have any opinion you want doesn't mean that your opinion can't be wrong. If I'm of the opinion that the sky is green, that's my perogative, but I'm still wrong.

Not that this has any bearing on the right or wrong of YOUR opinion, just 'splainin'.

Quote:

You're not forced to change your bar. You're fully welcome to continue running a bar that's less effective, and you'll still be able to succeed when using it in PvE. From there, you might want to change your bar to something more effective, and that's up to you.

Come on, Avarre. That level of technical hair-splitting is insultingly unproductive. If I find an effective method of getting through a mission, and the cornerstone skill of that build gets broken the next day, I'm not going to just stupidly blunder through and take ten times as long just because I can. For all intents and purposes, I'm forced to change at least one skill, which often requires other skills that play off of it to change as well.

When you spend your time figuring out how to do something, only to have it broken even though the actual challenge your up against isn't changing, that's just annoying. If the MOBs changed tactics like real players do, that would be interesting. But they're just computer logic, so they don't, so it's just frustrating and feels like a waste of time.

Quote:

Not a very good example if it doesn't get used in PvP.

Actually it's a staple in AB and it's a very effective skill there. Regardless, the point is that if a skill is effective in both aspects of play, it can be changed to be balanced in PvP, but that exact same skill completely ceases to function for its original purpose in PvE, thus negating entire skillbars when it's a cornerstone of a build like BHA is.

Skyy High · Apr 19, 2008, 07:22 PM // 19:22

BHA is a staple in AB because AB is full of PvE (or just bad PvP) rangers who don't know how to interrupt beyond hitting something with it and then autoattacking.

Just 'splainin'.

Ctb · Apr 19, 2008, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

BHA is a staple in AB because AB is full of PvE (or just bad PvP) rangers who don't know how to interrupt beyond hitting something with it and then autoattacking.

Just 'splainin'.

No, you're being a troll and you're going on /ignore because of it.

Sab · Apr 19, 2008, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

If I find an effective method of getting through a mission, and the cornerstone skill of that build gets broken the next day, I'm not going to just stupidly blunder through and take ten times as long just because I can. For all intents and purposes, I'm forced to change at least one skill, which often requires other skills that play off of it to change as well.

Skill updates make certain builds less effective, sure, but missions taking "ten times as long" is a huge exaggeration. Builds take small hits, rarely do they get destroyed to the point where it is completely inviable, and these builds tend to be overpowered gimmicks anyway (or farming builds). Are there any particular updates you're annoyed at having to adapt to?

Magikarp · Apr 19, 2008, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Not a very good example if it doesn't get used in PvP.
And I ment viable elite choices apart from Daze.
Daze, is just icing on the cake in PvE.

In PvE, ["save yourselves!"] > ["watch yourself!"].

here's a shocker...

not everyone, especially the casual players... get this... own all the games.

anet doesnt even factor those people in at all. not to mention, SY! revolves around a rep title, which is even MORE of a turn off for the non-pvper/casual pve'ers.

you're simply overlooking everything below your level of play, and thats beyond unfair for the general community. not everyone plays Headbutt, FF, Plague sig combos, not everyone has Savior of the Luxons, not everyone is you.

try to be a little more reasonable, because at the moment, carrying a real debate about the fate of our entire GWs population as a whole, still sounds more like, "the fate of high end pvp only players"... as usual...

Tyla · Apr 19, 2008, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

here's a shocker...

not everyone, especially the casual players... get this... own all the games.

BHA -> Factions.
SY -> Factions.
Both of them won't be available.

Quote:

anet doesnt even factor those people in at all. not to mention, SY! revolves around a rep title, which is even MORE of a turn off for the non-pvper/casual pve'ers.

50k K/L Faction doesn't take long to acquire.

Quote:

you're simply overlooking everything below your level of play, and thats beyond unfair for the general community. not everyone plays Headbutt, FF, Plague sig combos, not everyone has Savior of the Luxons, not everyone is you.

If these players aren't "hardcore", or whatever level of play you think I am, then they wouldn't be playing Hard Mode.

And SY is good even at Rank 1.

Quote:

try to be a little more reasonable, because at the moment, carrying a real debate about the fate of our entire GWs population as a whole, still sounds more like, "the fate of high end pvp only players"... as usual...

The fate of all the high end PvP-only players? Where did PvE-only skills fall into the PvP category?
And yeah, I don't only PvP, nor do I have as much time on my hands to be in the least serious about it.

stale · Apr 19, 2008, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by keli

The balance of pve doesn't mean that you have to play a full "HA" match against every group of pve monsters, nor you should be able to steamroll them.

Now, we have only steamroll pve teams, and that is a problem. (80% of the teams are ursan users)

80%? are you serious? really, most groups will be either H/H, or guild groups. even pugs, maybe half of them are screaming for UB. and frankly, those are the types that i want to avoid.

i will admit, there's areas of the game that are overrun with UB teams, but those are also the areas where anyone who's competent will be using a guild group. UB is simply there for the casual player, and the complete incompetents. however, one has to remember that most of the sales Anet has had are to casual players or kids.

in terms of game population, PvP is by far the smaller. after 3 years, they decided to stop abusing their larger playerbase. for me, this is fine. it is not how i'd do it, but hey. (i'd personally have two seperate sets of skills, so that the PvE crowd could use skillbars that work for longer than a week, and the PvP folks can diddle with new skills every thursday till their fingers fall off.)

Tyla · Apr 19, 2008, 09:49 PM // 21:49

I for one fail to see how Ursan was for the casual players.
I mean, to be able to PuG with it, you need rank 10...

Magikarp · Apr 19, 2008, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

BHA -> Factions.
SY -> Factions.
Both of them won't be available.

50k K/L Faction doesn't take long to acquire.

If these players aren't "hardcore", or whatever level of play you think I am, then they wouldn't be playing Hard Mode.

And SY is good even at Rank 1.

The fate of all the high end PvP-only players? Where did PvE-only skills fall into the PvP category?
And yeah, I don't only PvP, nor do I have as much time on my hands to be in the least serious about it.

you just said it yourself? so, in example, you said WY! is junk, which it is... if someone doesnt own factions, theres goes the already better solution of WY! (sy!), not to mention, just because YOU think 50K rep isnt a big deal, someone else does. a lot of people do.

also, i know tons of casual players who play HM, they just still aren't as involved or play as often as the more advanced players is all. another unfair accusation.

also.. you can ursan with rank 6 with almost no problem at all. thats one run through EotN+book for that title.. idk what game you play were you have to have r10 for it to even be effective...

Crom The Pale · Apr 19, 2008, 10:17 PM // 22:17

So let me get this straight...

Were mad at Anet for trying to fix a problem they created in the first place?

Here is the basic problem that Anet has been repeating since GW was first released.

Anet introduces a single item that is hard to aquire and sought after by everyone. A tiny number of people find a means of getting this item faster than everyone else/or are the only ones capable of getting it at all. Anet introduces a Nerf/Buff to stop the minority or open the area up to the majority. QQ/Flames/RageQuit/You killed my game/ect... soon follow.

From the first Crystaline Sword drop, first point of Fame earned, first FoW armor equiped right up through Ambraces/Kind Of A Big Deal titles/Emotes/Obsidian Edges/$100 000 Tournaments/ect...this has been the repeated pattern and it seams it shall never stop!

Willow O Whisper · Apr 19, 2008, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Are we to have 2 versions of every spell now? i don't know what to say.....

Celestial_Kitsune · Apr 19, 2008, 11:57 PM // 23:57

The developers have not yet determined how future balance implementation will work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

The way it was explained to me is that the changes are going to be reverted, as stated -- to reduce the impact on PvE play. After the changes have been reverted, the effects of the changes will be evaluated. As for the statement regarding possible future tournament changes "that will not impact PvE play at all," I'm unable to provide more details because of the contingent nature of the possible plans. Basically, there are some ideas floating around about this, but they aren't sure whether the implementation will work, and/or whether we have the resources to do so. Because the plans are not definite one way or the other, and because the plans depend on a lot of internal factors, it's not something we can go into great detail about at this time. If we did go into detail and then the plans changed, there would probably be a lot more anger and speculation than if such details were not released.

Source

Skyy High · Apr 20, 2008, 12:17 AM // 00:17

...sounds like they're splitting the skills to me. Only thing that could take that much internal work that they're apprehensive about doing it. Boooo.